A little Vinnie story

[FuseU1]

did he do this on purpose?? i will never noe.. but it was some crazy ass time keeping right there...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I believe the correct answer would be something like: "you bet'chur' a** he did it on purpose" [as in, knew what he was doing]... [img]wink.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]

Don't be confused...Vince NEVER "does not know" what he is doing on those traps... [img]wink.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]cool.gif[/img]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ February 26, 2005 11:35 AM: Message edited by: fuseU1 ]</font>

[Paraflam]

Nope it IS possible. In fact Vinnie's time is far from perfect. It feels great and it's consistant, but it's human. The Zappa grooves where there was no click involved are VERY human. I'm not taking anything from him by saying this. Producers prefer this. Playing right on the click sounds too machine like. Jeff, Vinnie, Shawn Pelton, Kenny Aronoff, none of these guys nail the click perfectly. However, that consistantly behind thing you speak of, is very common. Take the click out, and the drums have a pocket. The word pocket means "behind" deep. Slip INTO a pocket. That's what that word means in music. Nailing the click is not slipping into a pocket.
So yes, it's the way most great drummers play. Gadd, Vince Keltner.

[Paraflam]

Also don't take me wrong. All these great players can totally nail the click. They chose not to.

[Henry II]

Most white guys can't play drag time. [img]eek.gif[/img]

[Terry B]

Originally posted by Henry II:
Most white guys can't play drag time. [img]eek.gif[/img]

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Uhh...what dude? That's a pretty general statement there! I know a lot of white guys as well as about any other race with deep pockets that can place the time anywhere they want. It's all about control, man!

[FuseU1]

I agree w what Para said about playg behind the beat for the element of phatter pocket.
I was referring to the statement about VC "changing up" playg with the loop during Tweeked...he knew what he was doing in this manner. He always does.

[LDGuy]

Originally posted by CLWarunki:
I'm sure the click was somehow slipped a touch on playback in the program they were using... it happens... I doubt that Vinnie would play THAT MUCH behind a beat, if so then why not just take the click down 2bpm or something and lock in?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Do remember that playing behind the beat is not the same as playing slower. If your playing behind the beat, your still playing at the same speed as the rest of the musicians, you're just hitting the beats just after the rest of the band are. And i feel it is possible to play that much behind a beat, and Vinnie would do that if it suited the track.

Can someone post some files to listen to?

[Dazzler]

Can someone post some files to listen to?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Chuck E's in Love is a perfect example of how to lay back on the click. I'm sure that if you stuck a click on that track, the click would always be heard first, then Gadd's backbeat.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ February 27, 2005 07:12 AM: Message edited by: Dazzler ]</font>

[Andy Edwards]

Paraflam...

I agree 100%!

Drummers will never be able to beat a drum machine at playing in time.

I don't think Vinnie plays smack in time but what he does do sounds incredible...better than any machine.

I was once told Vinnie actually has had problems with his beat placement and has had to work hard to sort it out. (Maybe him getting the Sting gig was the pay off for his work?)

I think great drummers make the click dance.

[SingleStrk]

I just watched James Taylor's "Live at the Beacon Theatre"-dvd with Steve Jordan. Some of the grooves are so deep that they almost brought tears in my eyes. [img]redface.gif[/img]

Perfect reminder for me - click track is not music. Music is made by people.